The more common things you hear about the trade, what you might call "the party line," are:
1. The Nuggets benefit more than the Pistons do in the short term.
2. The Pistons benefit more than the Nuggets do in the long term.
When you go beneath those headlines, what you find is that the majority of the majority saying those two things are people who think that Allen Iverson's alleged "score first mentality" is (a) generally bad for his team and (b) disqualifies him from being the designated point guard.
I don't even fully concede the premise, which is that he has a "score first mentality." I think that used to be true, but I just discovered more proof just today, to go along with his 2008 news conferences, that shows that the 2008 Iverson mentality is more of a "win first mentality" than a "score first mentality".
But even if I conceded the premise, I would not agree with the conclusions: (a) and (b) above. A score first mentality guard who is a point guard and a shooting guard at the same time no matter what you do can still be made to work as long as you do not hose up the point guard position by disrespecting it, as the Nuggets completely and hopelessly did.
With respect to Iverson's score first mentality being generally bad for his team, I have written extensively for more than a year now about what the Nuggets (or any decent or good team) needed to do to solve the dilemma and to allow for Iverson to work out on their team. They didn't do any of the things I knew they needed to do. So they flunked out and, realizing they were going nowhere, they got rid of Iverson.
With regard to (b) that Iverson is disqualified from being a designated point guard: here we are living in an age when one of the highest scoring point guards in history brought his team to within 1 game of the Western Finals, yet people are still saying that over and over and over again like zombies. For the umpteenth time, it is not true that a guard who can score a lot of points is a guard who is disqualified from being the point guard. You just have to use your brain to set up your offense in particular and the role of the point guard in particular in such a way that works out with a high scoring point guard. This is something that the Pistons managers seem to know how to do, though it is too early to assume they will completely succeed.
So most of the people who are bowing down to the Nuggets and saying they will now make the playoffs are saying it only because of those false beliefs regarding high scoring point guards in general and an older Allen Iverson in particular. So does that mean that they are wrong, and the Nuggets will not actually make the playoffs even after the trade?
Yes, they are most likely wrong. There are 7 teams that are locks or virtual locks for the playoffs in the West:
1. Lakers
2. Rockets
3. Jazz
4. Hornets
5. Spurs
6. Mavericks
7. Suns
None of those teams have perfect point guards, perfect centers, or perfect anything else, but I would do 100 back flips on the lawn at midnight if I caught any of them disrespecting and hosing up the point guard or the center position.
The following teams will be scrambling for the 8th and final playoff spot:
1. Blazers
2. Clippers
3. Warriors
4. Nuggets
Other West Teams
1. Timberwolves
Thunder
Grizzlies
Kings
There is a slight possibility that the Suns will collapse and fall out of the playoffs, but I would not spend any time on that slight possibility right now. Even if the Spurs or Mavericks tank, they are still virtual locks for the playoffs. So most likely the Nuggets are just 1 of 4 teams battling for the 8th and final playoff spot in the West this year. (Wow, for how many years now has that been about true or exactly true?)
My prediction right now is that the Blazers will get the last spot, but that all depends on how many games Greg Oden plays. If he's out half the year or more, all bets are off.
The Clippers are off to a bad start but don't let that fool you. They are going to finish at least a game ahead of the Nuggets in my view. I even see the Warriors finishing ahead of the Nuggets.
Since this is just a fast break, I'm not going to describe how I think the Billups offense will pan out here; this is too long for a fast break already.
So why is it that I have the Nuggets 11th in the West and many others have them 8th?
1. As explained in some detail already, there is a lot about Iverson and how Iverson on the Nuggets was botched that those who are saying 8th and a playoff do not understand.
2. A good chunk of those same people are also saying that the removal of Marcus Camby from the Nuggets does not make the Nuggets any worse defensively, and may even make them better, especially if the Nuggets practice hard on defense, as they are. I shot this hope down in the game 1 (Jazz) game report. It's just wishful thinking.
3. Most of them are assuming that J.R. Smith will start and play at least 30 minutes per game, when neither is all that likely. Plus even if he does get that, no one disputes that his court thinking is still going to be kind of immature this year. Leave Smith in at the end of close games and you are cruising for a bruising.
4. The Nuggets are getting a sympathy vote. Some of them quite frankly are probably secretly feeling sorry for the bumbling Nuggets, who spent tens of millions of dollars to try to get a World Class team and now find themselves heading who knows how far south in the standings. So they are saying that the Nuggets will make the playoffs, but they don't really and truly think they will.
So I feel confident right at this time saying that the Nuggets will not make the playoffs. The Nuggets need some key injuries on several teams to be able to slip in.
Editorial Note: Please be aware that a "Fast Break" is a short and quick preview of some of the topics that will be explored and proved in more detail in upcoming regular reports. Fast Breaks will often reappear in full reports with only minor reediting, but there will be more important details, more evidence, and more implications and explanations in the full reports. Moreover, there will be topics that never appear in any Fast Break in a full Report.
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GIVE US THE JUICE TO PRODUCE REPORTS MORE QUICKLY
Although there is a guaranteed minimum rate of Report production regardless of traffic, IT IS IN YOUR POWER to help double or triple the number of and frequency of Reports. Simply take two or three minutes as often as you can to recommend Quest and post links to Quest on your favorite sports and other sites. The resulting automatic increase of traffic will in turn increase the resources that go in to producing Quest, which in turn speeds up reporting. If you want, e-mail how you helped (include the url of where you posted a link to Quest) and we will throw some Internet love back to where you tell us on the Internet. Thank you.
Here are some quick links that you can use to find a place where you might post a link to Quest and/or to Quest content.
HOLD MOUSE HERE TO EXPAND THIS MENU OF PLACES ON WHICH YOU CAN POST A LINK TO QUEST:
BASKETBALL SITES THAT ARE OPEN FOR CONTENT FROM ANYONE
Note: Beware of "layered" sites. None of the following are layered sites, which are sites that allow contributions from the public only in hard to find, low traffic areas, while the main areas are off limits for public input and are only for a chosen few. All of the following have at least some notable traffic, and all of them allow relatively equal and open participation. The order is from most recommended to least recommended, based on about half a dozen factors.
Bleacher Report Open Posting Site
Inside Hoops NBA Forum
Real GM NBA and Team Forums
Pro Sports Daily NBA Forum
Basketball Forum NBA Forum
Sporting News NBA Forum
Hoops Hype NBA Forum
Armchair GM Open Posting Site
SportsTwo NBA Forum
NBA Dimensions NBA Forum
OTR Basketball Forums NBA Forum
NBA Boards NBA Forum
NBA Wire NBA Forum
KFFL NBA Forum
Note: there are other forums, but they are all very low traffic and activity compared to the ones above.
MESSAGE BOARDS AT HUGE COROPORATIONS
The Fox NBA board is very low traffic, and the MSNBC NBA board doesn't exist anymore. The CBS Sports NBA Message Board is a layered site; you can NOT post topics nor expect to be considered seriously there until you have spent a few years posting there. We do not recommend CBS Sports. So the only real, fully open NBA forum hosted by a big corporation is the ESPN message board. Be forewarned though that the ESPN board is dominated by very young fans who make very short comments. On the other hand, it is a high traffic site, so we won't stop you from posting a Quest link at ESPN if you want to.
ESPN NBA Message Board
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>>QUEST ARCHIVE HOME PAGES--REPORT ARCHIVES AND A SMALL NUMBER OF CLASSIC FEATURES THAT WON'T FIT ON OTHER HOME PAGES
QUEST 4: REPORTS 101-200
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>>GOOGLE ARCHIVE you will find this, with Reports shown by week not very far below.
>>I'M NEW AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE I WANT TO GO: Welcome to the Real Zone. Simply browse the page and see for yourself what is here. You will not be disappointed.
>>OR YOU CAN DO A CUSTOM GOOGLE SEARCH OF THE 13 BOOKS AND COUNTING CONTAINED ON THIS SITE>>>>>
Due to the number of, uniqueness of, and importance of the many other home page features we have, only one Report loads at a time, currently the one just above. To see the next Report (which would be the one that came out just before the one above) on this home page, click "Older Posts" that is at the very bottom of the Report showing above, just above the section header "Your Ball: Take Your Best Shot".
>>ALTERNATIVE HOME PAGES
There are three home pages, all of which have all of the Reports but which have completely different features appearing on the sidebar and below the one Report that is shown at a time. These pages have been designed so that they fully load in about 10 seconds (no more super long load times we used to be known for.)
HOME PAGE A: ALL REPORTS, READERS CONTAINING REPORTS 1-100, AND UNIQUE FEATURES
HOME PAGE B: ALL REPORTS, READERS CONTAINING REPORTS 1-100, AND UNIQUE FEATURES
HOME PAGE C: ALL REPORTS, READERS CONTAINING REPORTS 1-100, AND UNIQUE FEATURES
>>REPORT READERS: Complete freedom to rapidly choose and read what you need or want to read. The latest 40 Reports are found near the top of all three of the primary home pages (linked to just above) while Reports #41-#100 are found in three separate readers placed at various points down the page on all three primary home pages.
>>EXPRESS VERSION: Every Single Report but no Features: a Fast Loading Page: Click Here
>>FAST BREAK VERSION: The Latest 100 Reports via Report Readers Only; no Features, a Fast Loading Page: Click Here
>>QUEST ARCHIVE HOME PAGES--REPORT ARCHIVES AND A SMALL NUMBER OF CLASSIC FEATURES THAT WON'T FIT ON OTHER HOME PAGES
QUEST 4: REPORTS 101-200
QUEST 5: REPORTS 201-300
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>>FEATURES ONLY HOME PAGES: NO REPORTS, JUST FEATURES THAT WE CAN'T FIT ANYWHERE ELSE
QUEST OVERTIME
QUEST CLASSIC
>>COMPLETE TITLE INDEX: : A Complete Report Title Index, with Express Version Links to all Reports
>>LATEST 25 Reports: Direct links to the latest 25 Reports (with no truncated titles as you find with the poorly designed Google archive). This is located near the very bottom of this page.
>>GOOGLE ARCHIVE you will find this, with Reports shown by week not very far below.
>>I'M NEW AND I DON'T KNOW WHERE I WANT TO GO: Welcome to the Real Zone. Simply browse the page and see for yourself what is here. You will not be disappointed.
>>OR YOU CAN DO A CUSTOM GOOGLE SEARCH OF THE 13 BOOKS AND COUNTING CONTAINED ON THIS SITE>>>>>
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THE QUEST FOR THE RING EMAIL ADDRESS
SITE E-MAIL
The site email address is the webmaster email address: nuggets1nuggets. This is a gmail address, so you add @gmail.com after the nuggets1nuggets. Use this email address to contact Nuggets 1 for any reason. If you are smart enough to know how basketball games are won, and you want to get promoted, nicely formatted space for you to publish your winning in basketball writing, by all means write to the above address. Alternatively, you can also comment or instantly publish your writing, by visiting and posting here.
The site email address is the webmaster email address: nuggets1nuggets. This is a gmail address, so you add @gmail.com after the nuggets1nuggets. Use this email address to contact Nuggets 1 for any reason. If you are smart enough to know how basketball games are won, and you want to get promoted, nicely formatted space for you to publish your winning in basketball writing, by all means write to the above address. Alternatively, you can also comment or instantly publish your writing, by visiting and posting here.
QUEST REPORTS #41 TO #60, GOING BACK IN TIME
QUALIFICATIONS OF THE PRIMARY WRITER
The basketball expert and maniac who writes most of this site doesn't know how to stop until he has said and proved it all. So we are simply in a League of our own, and much of this unique content is for truly serious basketball people. The Quest for the Ring primary writer has two college degrees, one in Economics and one in Accounting. Both were with high honors and straight A grades. He played basketball in high school mostly because he was so tall at an early age but, unfortunately, he didn't have squat for athletic skills. Is that why he respects players more than other writers do? Probably so. In any event, he has been very closely following pro basketball for more than a dozen years. He has been extremely closely following the NBA in general and the Denver Nuggets in particular for over 4 years now. He has been learning the Detroit Pistons in great detail since the Iverson trade. He learns fast.
QUEST LOADING TIMES, RELOADING, AND BROWSER USAGE
LOADING OUR LOADED PAGE: The Nuggets 1 Main Page is chock loaded and needs time to load from sometimes sluggish or clunky Google servers. You may not be able to scroll properly while the page is loading. Links, including unfortunately the jump link to the latest content, may not work until the page is done or almost done loading. Please be patient and let it load. Your own computer system contains many variables that also determine how long it takes for Quest for the Ring to fully load. For example, how many programs and other sites are already up and running on your computer, and whether you have recently cleaned your temporary internet history and related caches will help determine how long it takes for the page to long.
Despite great variations, we will make estimates of how long the Quest home page will need to fully load. The following time are for those with reasonably healthy and not overburdened systems. With a fast broadband connection, generally a cable connection in the USA, the page will load in full in about 30-60 seconds. It will take 50-120 seconds to load with slower broadband connections, generally dsl in the USA. In Europe and Japan, my understanding is that dsl connections are frequently much faster than they are in the USA, so it would be less time for dsl in Europe and Japan. With a dial-up connection, the Quest home page might take 1-2.5 minutes to load, so just go on to something else and come back in about 2 minutes would be my advice if you are loading the page with a slow dial-up connection.
However you are assessing Quest, it is well worth the wait, so please try to be patient and let it load. Remember, most good things require at least a little bit of patience.
RELOADING WILL BE NECESSARY SOMETIMES
Every once in a while, parts of the page will not load. You will notice some things missing. If this happens, normally, if you click refresh and reload the page, you will get a complete loading and it will be a quicker loading than the original loading was. Having said that, you will find if you are a very heavy internet user that at any given time, if you have more than one browser available to you, that different browsers may load a loaded page such as this differently, with perhaps only one browser loading the page in full and other browsers failing to load one or more elements.
BROWSERS
All major users of the internet eventually realize that they must have at least 2 browsers, because browsers gradually become less reliable as time goes by, and because even if a browser is freshly downloaded, it may not properly load certain internet pages, whereas another browser will. If you notice open spaces on Quest (or any other website) even after reloading the page, you may need to try a different browser in order to more fully view that page. At this time, the Quest finds that any of the following browsers are able to fully, or at least almost fully, load Quest for the Ring pages: We recommend all of the following equally:
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Mozilla Firefox
Safari
Despite great variations, we will make estimates of how long the Quest home page will need to fully load. The following time are for those with reasonably healthy and not overburdened systems. With a fast broadband connection, generally a cable connection in the USA, the page will load in full in about 30-60 seconds. It will take 50-120 seconds to load with slower broadband connections, generally dsl in the USA. In Europe and Japan, my understanding is that dsl connections are frequently much faster than they are in the USA, so it would be less time for dsl in Europe and Japan. With a dial-up connection, the Quest home page might take 1-2.5 minutes to load, so just go on to something else and come back in about 2 minutes would be my advice if you are loading the page with a slow dial-up connection.
However you are assessing Quest, it is well worth the wait, so please try to be patient and let it load. Remember, most good things require at least a little bit of patience.
RELOADING WILL BE NECESSARY SOMETIMES
Every once in a while, parts of the page will not load. You will notice some things missing. If this happens, normally, if you click refresh and reload the page, you will get a complete loading and it will be a quicker loading than the original loading was. Having said that, you will find if you are a very heavy internet user that at any given time, if you have more than one browser available to you, that different browsers may load a loaded page such as this differently, with perhaps only one browser loading the page in full and other browsers failing to load one or more elements.
BROWSERS
All major users of the internet eventually realize that they must have at least 2 browsers, because browsers gradually become less reliable as time goes by, and because even if a browser is freshly downloaded, it may not properly load certain internet pages, whereas another browser will. If you notice open spaces on Quest (or any other website) even after reloading the page, you may need to try a different browser in order to more fully view that page. At this time, the Quest finds that any of the following browsers are able to fully, or at least almost fully, load Quest for the Ring pages: We recommend all of the following equally:
Internet Explorer
Mozilla Firefox
Safari